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2018-06-02


[19:00] Stickman Ingmann: Welcome everyone to the official Roarbeast office hours!
[19:00] Stickman Ingmann: Please hold your questions to the end. I get distracted by answering them and lose my place in the presentation.
[19:00]
Stickman Ingmann: We're currently working on a quadrupedal rigged mesh dragon avatar. To find any problems with our 3D pipeline, before we put the more complex dragon through, we're also making a small dinosaur avatar.
[19:01]
Stickman Ingmann: Maneframe is working on the models and textures, and Stickman (myself) is responsible for the scripts and animations. And all the other stuff.
[19:01]
Stickman Ingmann: Maneframe is currently out of State on a working vacation and couldn't join us today. But he's actually working on the 3D modeling right now.
[19:01]
Stickman Ingmann: The progression here is simple: I'll give a little presentation on what we've been up to the last two weeks, then open the floor to questions. Then I'll forget to mention that the log will be up on Monday, and the next office hours will be in two weeks, same time and place.
[19:01]
Stickman Ingmann: Alright, to start, let me rez out some pictures.
[19:02]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: all these dergins... let me make room. :P
[19:03]
Malakar: sorry, saw everyone taking our their gorgeous wyverns and i wanted to add to it xD
[19:03]
ηιѕнα: oogles pictures
[19:03]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: that mod is super pretty, Malakar.
[19:03]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: I love the peacock feath ❤
[19:04] Malakar: thank you! so is your super fluffy wyvern <3
[19:04]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: ^.=.^
[19:04]
Lupey Severine: Woof!
[19:04]
Malakar: also, attachments!
[19:04]
Stickman Ingmann: So as of right now, all of the highest priority initial model tasks are finished. Everything that absolutely has to be done is. So modeling progress will continue on "less important" accessories and whatnot to give more variety to the avatar.
[19:05]
Stickman Ingmann: We're planning on a lot of customization options for the dragon, which is going to be an interesting battle for us.
[19:05]
ηιѕнα: those horns ❤
[19:06]
Stickman Ingmann: So, to talk about specifics. On the left we have dorsal spikes. These will go from the nose to the end of the tail. But you'll be able to detach them as you like, and only have part of the pattern if you want. We're aiming on having things as customizable and easy to use as possible.
[19:06]
Stickman Ingmann: We have three head models done, which can be seen in these images. And to get the horns working right, we need to custom-set them for all three. The goal here is to have things be as seamless as possible.
[19:07]
Stickman Ingmann: Wait, I missed one.
[19:07]
Stickman Ingmann: There. The neat magic horns.
[19:07]
Angtanakacha A. ShadowStrider: *.*
[19:07]
Lupey Severine: I like those horns
[19:07]
Stickman Ingmann: If you look closely at the bottom center image, the antelope style straight horns, you'll see extra geometry on the base designed to help integrate the horns with the head, seamlessly.
[19:09] Stickman Ingmann: When we do the UV unwrap -- which is basically taking the 3D model and laying it flat like a piece of paper -- we can align it so this "transition" geometry uses the same texture space as the head, so it should look completely seamless with or without the the horns attached.
[19:10]
Stickman Ingmann: The tail in the lower right, to be honest, was a bit of a disaster. The plan for this tail is to have a lot of parts to make the tail interesting. But zBrush doesn't handle flat things well. Part of our pipeline is to bring things in Blender, which I am more familiar with, and give them an optimization and alignment pass, to ensure things are seamless. This bouquet tail will be getting a bit more love than other pieces.
[19:11]
Stickman Ingmann: As an example of things being made seamless, let me bring up something Maneframe finished just today.
[19:12]
Stickman Ingmann: This is the pachy cheek spikes. You can see from the image below the difference between these and the default heads.
[19:12]
Stickman Ingmann: Each accessory has to be adapted to each head to fit properly, so each one is a bit more work. But I'm confident it will be well worth it in the end.
[19:13]
Malakar: those cheek spikes might just be my favorite thing rn
[19:13]
Cherophobia: theyre cute
[19:13]
Angtanakacha A. ShadowStrider: <----still staring at magic horns *.*
[19:13]
Stickman Ingmann: Also, Maneframe is under no NDA or anything, so he likes to post stuff he's working on directly to his Telegram news channel. If you're interested in seeing some of his personal work, as well as Roarbeast dragon progress, you can check it out here: https://t.me/ManeframeArt He does post some mature items, so keep that in mind before subscribing.
[19:14]
Aeitheiyniyah Elzaphan: Ooh, that is so cool..!
[19:14]
Toothless Draegonne: I'm sure some people will definitely keep that in mind :^)
[19:14]
Stickman Ingmann: Progress for these upcoming weeks is to push the small dinosaur through the pipeline to find any issues, and continue work on the accessories and making them seamless.
[19:14]
BearCave: dinosaaaur
[19:15]
Stickman Ingmann: I also had a little office hours stadium style thing I was building, and I forgot to upload it this week. So I'll have to get that up for next office hours.
[19:15]
ηιѕнα: rawrrr
[19:15]
Stickman Ingmann: That's everything I had to present. The floor is open for questions.
[19:16]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: is there a reliable guesstimate as to when there will be a beta version to test?
[19:16]
Cherophobia: Will there be mammal-type options for the fluffy dragons?
[19:16] ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: or still too early?
[19:16]
ηιѕнα: I really love how seamless the attachments will look. I just wanna say that. It always bothered me when horns and such look like they are just placed on without thought to the base of horns.
[19:18]
Stickman Ingmann: Currently, no significant fluff is planned for the initial release. But I'd love to make a furry body replacement, and other furry options. We could even use spare bones, like the hind legs, in order to give the fluff some animated life. Definitely something I'm looking forward to playing with.
[19:18]
Stickman Ingmann: It's a bit early to say when we'll have a beta version up. Things are moving at a nice pace, but it's at least a couple months away still, bare minimum.
[19:19]
ηιѕнα: you guys have definitely made so much progress already :D
[19:19]
Toothless Draegonne: youo know if it could rear up and go from quad to biped and back in some kind of morph anim without wearing a seperate avatar, that'd probably blow every other dergn in SL out of the water :o
[19:19]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: shouts: I HATE MY TOUCHPAD
[19:19]
Malakar: I was going to ask about that, lol
[19:20]
Stickman Ingmann: Beta will be a full-priced avatar purchase, with limited quantities. More will be added now and then as the product reaches stability. We've found this to be the best way to get good feedback about the avatar. Stay in touch with development if you want a chance to get into the beta. The social media news sources are here: http://roarbeastsl.tumblr.com/post/85688415476/roarbeast-social-media-accounts
[19:20]
Toothless Draegonne: going the Snokra route? Long-term beta with a copy of the finished product when done?
[19:20]
Stickman Ingmann: You can also join the group for the less reliable SL notices. secondlife:///app/group/cb20dd82-5f00-f1a9-77ae-792d30ee754e/about But you should join the group regardless. :>
[19:20]
Stickman Ingmann: I'm hoping beta won't be very long term. We'll be doing a beta when move everything is done, and just needs testing.
[19:20]
Stickman Ingmann: Maybe a month or two.
[19:21]
Aeitheiyniyah Elzaphan: It may be a bit early to ask, but for the initial version, what do you envision the sizes to be? Will there only be a larger dragon first, or will it come in multiple sizes right away? In other words; Will this be a viable 'upgrade' for my current avatar without being any larger than the SW Juvenile?
[19:21]
Stickman Ingmann: I've heard people ask about a quadruped to biped AO switch. There seems to be interest. I'm not sure if the 3d model will lend itself to that well, but offering an alternative AO is definitely something we can do after the avatar is released.
[19:22]
Stickman Ingmann: Right now there are two guaranteed sizes for the dragon, based on general requests and feedback we received previously. One is "as big as possible." Because the ancient Seawolf Dragon was the best seller. The other is an adult dragon the size of a large draft horse.
[19:23]
ηιѕнα: A random thought for a possible feature for hands and feet- webbing.Is that something that could be possible for those who wanna make aquatic mods?
[19:23]
Stickman Ingmann: Ideally, we'd be able to provide a large range of sizes. When we had a poll, the responses were basically even across the board: housecat, pony, horse, existing Seawolf adult size.
[19:24] Kanowyn: The ancient seems a bit too big for this model to look plausible.
[19:24]
Stickman Ingmann: The hands and feet will be detachable. So you will be able to put on entirely new hands and feet sold as add-ons, or just attach some extra rigged mesh for webbing between the toes.
[19:24]
Malakar: Perhaps the design is not very suited for a horizontal, dinosaurian-type biped style, but given how the hands are already well made for dexterity at least some sort of straighter, even humanoid posture, like an action button not even an ao might be nice ^^
[19:25]
ηιѕнα: nice :D
[19:25]
Malakar: oooh, awesome!
[19:26]
Stickman Ingmann: On of the goals for this avatar is customizability. It will require rigged mesh as add-ons in order to work properly, or at the very least be seamless, but we're hoping to add a lot of extra content after the dragon is up for sale, based on people's interest and feedback. We'll also be including a devkit so people can create third party mods.
[19:27]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: oh, do you have any idea yet what the range of sounds for the dragon will look like?
[19:27]
Kanowyn: Lots of folks want fluff and manes.
[19:27]
ηιѕнα: Will there be tools to help people who wanna make their own animations?
[19:27]
Stickman Ingmann: Absolutely. I plan on providing some source files for the animations to help out with that.
[19:28]
Stickman Ingmann: We'll be using Blender with the Avastar add-on for animations. But I'm sure there are some other tools that can be used that will work sa well.
[19:28]
BearCave: this may be (way) too early to ask, but whats the expected complexity range going to be?
[19:29]
Stickman Ingmann: It is a bit early for that. I plan on making the avatar as low in rendering cost as possible. I've done some experiments with "onion skinning" on how to reduce the cost as low as possible when it's not rendering a texture.
[19:30]
Stickman Ingmann: I really wish the Bakes on Mesh feature LL is working on could be used to bypass the need for multi-layered 3D models, but we'd have to switch from a texture HUD to in-inventory texture application to do that. Which would be way too much of a downgrade.
[19:31]
Cherophobia: It'd allow for easily applying tattoo layers without adding layers though
[19:31]
Cherophobia: A lot of the bakes on mesh discussions right now seem to be about hud integration
[19:31]
Stickman Ingmann: More efficient, for sure. But not easier.
[19:31] BearCave: understandable. I ask because it'd be a real shame to not be able to see all the great work due to a high complexity (like some dragon avs cough cough)
[19:31]
Cherophobia: beeps Larka's muzzle
[19:32]
ηιѕнα: can't count how many times people say they can't see me cause of my complexity on larger avatars lol <_<
[19:32]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: saaaaame. >_>
[19:32]
Stickman Ingmann: Yeah, I'll be actively working to avoid that issue.
[19:33]
BearCave: is beeped
[19:33]
Aeitheiyniyah Elzaphan: Happens to me all the time! I'm just plain invisible.
[19:33]
BearCave: thats wonderful and reassuring to hear, thank you
[19:33]
Meiloidia Coatl: >.> complexity woes
[19:33]
Stickman Ingmann: I appreciate you sharing those experiences with me. It does help me design a better avatar to hear about the problems encountered.
[19:33]
ηιѕнα: I think I remember hearing once in a previous office hour you'll be using animesh, right?
[19:33]
Stickman Ingmann: Yes. After a fashion.
[19:34]
Stickman Ingmann: For those that aren't familiar with it, Animesh is a new project LL is working on. It allows you to put a skeleton into and animate mesh objects. Basically an NPC.
[19:34]
Stickman Ingmann: Users will be able to attach one (1) animesh to their avatar. Which can be used as a sort of workaround for any limitations the avatar may have regarding not having enough bones for you to do what you want.
[19:34]
ηιѕнα: thought of wearing an NPC amuses me more than it should XD
[19:35]
Stickman Ingmann: Since we decided we're going to use the Bento hand bones, with all those beautiful finger bones, in order to animate the fingers themselves, that leaves us with less bones to work with to animate the wings. Which would look amazing if they had a whole set of finger bones to work with.
[19:35]
Cherophobia: a little buddy
[19:35]
Angtanakacha A. ShadowStrider: so would it be possible to wear the new mesh dragon as a mount if we wish to?
[19:35]
Stickman Ingmann: By using an (optinoal) animesh attachment, we can get the best of both worlds.
[19:36] Stickman Ingmann: If we did some custom animations and scripting, yes. It would be possible for the new mesh dragon to be an NPC mount.
[19:36]
Stickman Ingmann: Honestly, my mind went to the wings, and I never considered making an NPC based on the dragon.
[19:37]
ηιѕнα: that would be something no one has done before in SL. You buy an avatar but said avatar could also be a mount.
[19:37]
ηιѕнα: or maybe even as a companion
[19:37]
Angtanakacha A. ShadowStrider: nods
[19:38]
Stickman Ingmann: Three story tall dragon as one of those follower pets.
[19:38]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: that would be especially cute for the smallest sizes of the avatar.
[19:38]
Stickman Ingmann: You walk into a house, and it shoves its head through the doorframe. "Don't leave me!"
[19:38]
Kanowyn: o_o
[19:38]
Malakar: ...dammit. you gotta admit that would be precious
[19:39]
Malakar: do not abandon the durgon. he would not abandon you!
[19:39]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: suddenly a giant eye blocks the entire window. you hear a sad, muffled whine through the wall.
[19:40] Stickman Ingmann: Any other questions before we write the script to a heartwarming story about a dragon who can't fit in front of the living room hearth?
[19:40]
ηιѕнα: ty for crashing SL x_x
[19:40]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: welcome back.
[19:40]
ηιѕнα: ty :)
[19:41]
Stickman Ingmann: SL just wants to remind you that you're a hostage, and it can pull the trigger at any time.
[19:41]
ηιѕнα: will there be an alternate AO for those who decide to go wingless? Mostly for the hover and flying animations.
[19:41]
ηιѕнα: lol~ right?
[19:42]
Stickman Ingmann: Yes. I plan on wingless being a lot more automatic this time. More like the Seawolf Gryphon, for those who have removed its wings. That is, you remove the wings, and it just works as expected.
[19:42]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: Noice.
[19:42]
ηιѕнα: awesome ^^
[19:42]
Aeitheiyniyah Elzaphan: Neat!
[19:42]
Cherophobia: An alternate anim to flying could be swimming :o I rarely see water dragons
[19:42]
Stickman Ingmann: It's a lot easier when you plan these things from the start. They don't work as well when you try to shoehorn them in later.
[19:43]
Stickman Ingmann: Hoping I'll have time to implement a proper physics overrider for the water. Float on the surface, move slower. Some bubble particle effects.
[19:43]
Toothless Draegonne: waterdragon and noodledragon could be very similar anyway. Have more eastern-style AO as "swimming" through the air eel-style
[19:43] Toothless Draegonne: (-O . O-)
[19:43]
Angtanakacha A. ShadowStrider: for flying will there a few tricks that can be done? and also will the animation hud* be rp friendly?
[19:43]
Cherophobia: oooh
[19:43]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: blub blub. :V
[19:44]
ηιѕнα: a floating AO would be sooo amazing. I honestly hate using SL flying underwater because swimming forward just shoots me about 50m out into the air again
[19:44]
Stickman Ingmann: I do not know what you mean by "RP friendly" animation HUD?
[19:44]
Stickman Ingmann: I'm honestly surprised SL never implemented water officially.
[19:45]
Angtanakacha A. ShadowStrider: ah, like certain interaction with other dragons, or human like characters
[19:45]
Stickman Ingmann: In order for the different sized dragons to properly move around, I'll have to do a physics overrider for walking and the like already. So a swimming physics overrider isn't much of a jump. I've always avoided those in the past, but I've gained new confidence in their functionality after working with them with Water Horse.
[19:45]
ηιѕнα: that would be nifty if we could have animations that could interact with a human or other dragon
[19:45]
Cherophobia: saying it like that sounds iffy...
[19:46]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: dragon cuddle poses! though I feel like that will be an aftermarket thing.
[19:46]
Stickman Ingmann: Interacting animations are difficult. The positioning of an avatar via script is accurate, but the rotation of an avatar via script is nearly impossible to predict or set, making interaction animations very difficult. But with a little education (line yourself up like so first), and some poseballs when absolutely necessary, it's possible for interactions to work.
[19:47]
ηιѕнα: Mhmm. Third party market will be making a lot of additional things as well.
[19:48]
Stickman Ingmann: Based on popular opinion, the Roarbeast Dragon package is going to be similar to the Seawolf Dragon package. Multiple heads, headdresses, etc. But we do plan to sell additional content as add-ons, for the most part, allowing us to continue production of more customization options. Don't want anyone to be surprised and upset when they find out some of the things we're talking about end up coming later, and for money.
[19:48]
Stickman Ingmann: I'm hoping they will, Nisha. More content is always awesome.
[19:48]
ηιѕнα: I'm really curious how the UV maps will look. Mostly because certain dragon avatars have made theirs a little more complex and intimidating than they really needed to be.
[19:48]
Toothless Draegonne: seems to historically be Seawolf's thing: Price high, but you get a whole bunch of stuff. :P
[19:49]
ηιѕнα: Which also means fewer people making their own skins
[19:49]
Stickman Ingmann: I can give you a rough idea of how we plan to make the UV unwrap.
[19:49]
Angtanakacha A. ShadowStrider: pokes toothless
[19:49]
Cherophobia: I wanna see the concept UVs too oooh
[19:49]
Toothless Draegonne: (-O . O-)
[19:49]
ηιѕнα: yes please :)
[19:49]
BearCave: saaame
[19:49]
ηιѕнα: It's basically why I never made custom skins for the current dragons out there. Overly complex lol~
[19:49]
Stickman Ingmann: Most of the heads will require their own unwrap, because they're unique shapes. So they'll likely be a separate texture. But the main body we can get away with having as its own map. The wings will be separate because of the real estate required on them.
[19:49]
Meiloidia Coatl: Yes please, admitedly, the wyvern is one of the hardest UV maps I've had to deal with. A lot of seam matching.
[19:50]
Stickman Ingmann: So, that's at least three right there. Accessories we can group in some cases, but others are going to require unique textures. So most headdresses may have their own unwraps/textures.
[19:50]
Kanowyn: so many seams....
[19:50]
Cherophobia: Will any shaders be provided or just raw UVs?
[19:50]
Malakar: Same here. I normally like to do my own custom skins but for the ones out there atm I don't bother, there are too many things to upload
[19:50]
Malakar: nevermind draw, hah
[19:51]
Stickman Ingmann: We'll provide a built in texture set or two with the UV maps, so people have an example or a starting point for their textures.
[19:51]
ηιѕнα: The fewer the maps the better, I like it :D
[19:52]
Kanowyn: took me an age to create a base texture for the wyvern, jeebus.
[19:52]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: zero. zero maps.
[19:52]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: :P
[19:52]
ηιѕнα: lol
[19:52]
Stickman Ingmann: So, to summarize on customization. We'll include UV maps, we'll minimize seams where we can, we'll include some default texture PSD files, a 3D modeling devkit for custom model parts, and an animation devkit as well. The devkits basically being some modified or slimmed down source files.
[19:52]
ηιѕнα: I still get great joy fiddling with TWI maps because it is all on one layer XD
[19:53]
Stickman Ingmann: For the standard end-user, we're hoping customization is as easy as wearing and not wearing parts. Occasionally rezzing and unlinking some parts when deeper customization is desired.
[19:53]
ηιѕнα: Really amazing work so far guys ^^
[19:54]
Stickman Ingmann: We've got a few minutes left. Any questions before it's over?
[19:54]
Lupey Severine: You wanna play Destiny 2 later?
[19:54]
Kanowyn: Stick needs sleep :p
[19:54]
Stickman Ingmann: I might go to sleep right after this. We'll talk afterwards.
[19:55]
Lupey Severine: Ok
[19:55]
Cherophobia: All this stuff looks and sounds amazing
[19:55]
Lupey Severine: Stick needs to play with me
[19:55]
Aeitheiyniyah Elzaphan: It really does! I'm so excited for it all
[19:55]
Toothless Draegonne: less question more suggestion: Script API for HUDs and whatever other tweakables. Being able to llSay or llRegionSayTo the dragon and have it *do stuff* would be ossum.
[19:55]
Stickman Ingmann: Thanks! Hoping to get it all to you sooner rather than later.
[19:55]
BearCave: I'm very excited for it
[19:56]
Toothless Draegonne: especially with the whole animesh thing
[19:56]
Toothless Draegonne: and have fun :>
[19:56]
Stickman Ingmann: Toothless, I've always had an API of sorts for the comments. The Seawolf Gryphon being the most complex of any. So yes, you should expect to be able to manually send commands, or set them up as gestures.
[19:56]
ηιѕнα: Are there plans to add wing poses to it? Maybe like a hug, fold and possible wing slap animation? I know when I rp in sims I use wing poses a lot for my avatars.
[19:56]
Stickman Ingmann: http://www.seawolf-monsters.com/wiki/Gryphon/Gestures
[19:57]
Malakar: Another suggestion: unrigged 'horn nub' attachment? In the sense like the bumps on the head around a horn, like in the antelope horns, which could be added to the base of custom horns to make them look more seamless. though then again i guess that is simple enough to get off MP
[19:57]
Stickman Ingmann: I'm not sure what I can fit in the default package. It'll at least have a full AO of animations, and a couple basic gestures. But I'd be happy to build animation HUDs to round out and improve the available animations.
[19:57]
Aeitheiyniyah Elzaphan: The Adult proportioned one sounds like just the thing i've been dreaming of, remaking myself in proper Bento Mesh at an acceptable size! I could squeal with joy and throw all my money at it to be a reality!
[19:58]
Stickman Ingmann: We're planning to include unrigged pieces in addition to the rigged people, where we can, so people can use the models where they like, instead of where we rigged it.
[19:58]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: heya Sylphe. :>
[19:59]
ηιѕнα: I'd love to use the varying heads for other mods so unrigged pieces would be wonderful
[20:00]
Stickman Ingmann: Thanks everyone for coming to office hours!
[20:00]
Stickman Ingmann: We'll be meeting again in two weeks, same time and place. 7pm here at Aggro.
[20:00]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: thank you for holding them!
[20:00]
Stickman Ingmann: June 16th.
[20:00]
Toothless Draegonne: \o/
[20:00]
ɀᴀєʀєᴘʜ: ^.=.^
[20:00]
Ɍᴀƞᴀᴋᴀƞᴛʜ: Thanks Stickman. Cool to see the process and learn about what's coming up
[20:00]
Meiloidia Coatl: Woo!
[20:00]
Malakar: thank you for the office hours, stickman!
[20:00]
ηιѕнα: Thank you for hosting these office hours. Its nice knowing what's coming instead of being in the dark :D
[20:01]
Aeitheiyniyah Elzaphan: Thank you so much! Looking forward to the next one!!
[20:01]
Cherophobia: Bedtime for stickman :D
[20:01]
Stickman Ingmann: Take care, everyone! I'm heading out directly.

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Page last modified on June 04, 2018, at 06:35 AM